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Welcome to Momentum, a motorsports podcast powered by High Gear Success. I'm your host, Heather Wilson Schiltz. Here we share the stories and strategies that keep the world of motorsports moving forward. Today's guests are Inna Thorn, executive director and VP of Backcountry Discovery Routes, and Tim James, board president and creative director. So thank you both for joining me. Nice to be here. So I'm a big fan of the BDR. My husband and I love to watch. the documentaries that you guys produce online. haven't unfortunately got to tackle a BDR for ourselves yet, but I think the routes are getting a little closer and closer to Ohio for us. So I think pretty soon we'll have that opportunity. You absolutely will. have a route in development in Ohio as we speak. So it'll come out in a couple of years. Yes, I'm so excited for that. So BDR dates back to 2010, I think, if I found that correctly. But can you kind of take us back to the beginning? What led to the creation of the organization and what was the gap that you guys saw in the adventure riding world? Yeah, so just for those people who don't know what BDR is, BDR stands for Backcountry Discovery Routes, and we're a nonprofit organization that preserves off-highway riding opportunities for dual sport and motorcycle community. And so we were founded in 2010 with the first route in Washington state. That route was created sort of an idea that uh that adventure riders need places to ride on public lands. There was an obscure route that was in existence prior to 2010 in Oregon that was created by the Oregon Off Highway Vehicle Association. And there were a number of those routes, they were free to public and a number of ADV enthusiasts in Seattle rode that route and decided to create something similar in the state of Washington. That's kind of how BDR started. created a film about it. They provided free GPS tracks to the community. We partnered with Butler maps to create a map, created a website and made it really easy for people to go and explore the backcountry of Washington state at that, at that time on a motorcycle. And then it was such a successful proposition and thousands of people saw the film and. rode the Washington route that the organization decided to form as a formal nonprofit and to start creating more routes around the country. So currently we have 23 routes between our cross state BDR routes and BDR-X loop routes. And those comprise over 20,000 miles of free adventure tracks for the BDR community. So that's kind of a history in a nutshell and we can expand on that. Yeah, I love the concept of having pre-planned routes too. Of course, it's always great to go out and kind of adventure on your own and find your own routes, but sometimes it's just so nice having the planning done for you. And obviously you don't know different parts of the country that you're not from very well to even be able to plan from scratch and adventure. So I think this is a great opportunity for riders to kind of access some really high quality routes with very little planning involved for themselves. Yeah, I think that's the key, Heather, is that um we gave the community time to do this, right? Because it's super time consuming to develop, to come up with a 10-day route and figure out all your resources along the way. So that's the opportunity I think we gave to our community, is to make we made it easy and accessible. Mm-hmm. And so I think Inna mentioned there are 15 routes and that doesn't even include the BDR-X route. So can you kind of explain the differentiation between the traditional BDR route and the BDR X routes? Yeah. So the, the original concept for the BDR route was a cross state uh route that was uh on public lands, including public roads, forest roads, BLM land, uh and remote back country roads and trying to find the most beautiful parts of the country that you would not experience unless you were riding an adventure motorcycle. You know, it takes years to develop each route and stitching these routes together to create a cohesive route across the state. And then a few years ago, we developed a new concept of BDR-X route. So these are shorter BDR style loops that are logistically a lot easier to uh accomplish where a cross-state BDR may take anywhere from You know, five to 10 days, they are, you know, normal anywhere from 800 to 1200 miles. Um, you have to figure out like where you know, if you're trailering your bike, they're leaving it at the beginning and then coming back. So logistically, it's a little bit more, um, difficult and takes a lot more planning where a BDR-X loop, um, is either an adjacent loop to the existing route or, um, if A state, for example, does not lend itself to a cross-state adventure route, but there's an interesting area that we want to highlight for adventure riders. Then this loop route concept really is the perfect concept where people can join the loop anywhere. They could do it over the weekend. uh And it's just a much easier way to do BDR that you can accomplish anywhere from two to four days. And also maybe a good trial run for those that maybe aren't used to significant multi-day rides to do a BDR-X to start and get their feet wet. I think that's an excellent point Heather is it's to do a 10 day adventure. If you've never done it before, it can be challenging, you know, and getting out on a BDR-X, which could be anywhere from a two to a four day, adventure definitely gets your feet wet and gives you a very good idea of what it looks like. So yeah, great point. Well, and depending on the type of adventure bike that you own too, may or may not lend itself well to a 10 day ride. I have a KTM 690 Enduro. I could probably do a couple of days on it. I've done a couple of days on it, but 10 days on that seat. ah Might be a little bit. Well, then maybe just look at a different seat because lots of people do it on those bikes. I mean, Inna's been riding a Husky 701 for a number of years, which is essentially the same motorcycle. And she crushes it. Yeah, different seat would probably be warranted for that many days. Yeah, KTM is famous for their, you know, their two by four seats. Yeah, they're not super comfortable. So Inna mentioned this too, that these routes take sometimes years to develop. So what goes into like scouting, riding, revising them and kind of validating the information? Is it staff from BDR that's doing that? Do you lean on partners in the community? Well, think it's a mix of both. Initially, I think in the beginning, it was more like the core group that was doing it. But as we've grown and developed over the last 15 years, 16 years now, we began leveraging the community and reaching out to local experts that we could trust, that understand the criteria that goes into building a route. um And it helps us to, you deliver these routes quicker now that we've got a whole, you know, we've got an army of people led by a gentleman by the name of Bryce Stevens, who is one of our founders and he's head of route development. And under him is Michael Bielecki, who is our routes manager. So those two kind of sit at the helm and they do a lot of the work themselves, the boots on the ground work, but also leverage a lot of talent across the country. Is that probably a good way of describing it, Inna? Yeah. And like we said, take anywhere from, you know, two to five years to complete, starting with Bryce and Michael staring at maps, you know, doing the regional research. And Bryce is just the mastermind of this amazing national BDR map. Like he had that in his head 10 years ago. You know, now we, with 23 existing routes, I know that he has any, like 40 routes in development right now and working with uh, local volunteers in all these states, uh, our organization is pretty much a hundred percent volunteer other than the really short staff and the volunteer board, but all the work is, being carried out by volunteers and specifically the scouting work. you know, figuring out and staring at maps is the first step identifying those, um, riders in the area who have deep knowledge of, of great public roads that we can ride on. Um, having a plan for kind of disjointed routes, but then the scouting teams go and start scouting, you know, anywhere from a year to two, three years is they're just making sure or looking at where these routes go. Are they suitable for BDR riders? Are they too easy? Are they too difficult? Are they scenic enough? And then, you know, eventually making sure that you know, we have access to these roads that they're all public. uh making sure that we kind of properly vet, um, all the roads that we put on, on the final BDR route. And then we go and ride that route with a filming expedition, with a variety of riders, bikes, skill levels. sometimes we still make changes on that final filming expedition. Um, and then eventually. you know, providing the free tracks in the film and all the travel resources to the community. So it's an incredible effort, you know, but it's definitely really fun. You mentioned making sure those are all like public roads or routes as well. Have you run into any trouble along the way of when you were building routes or maybe even existing routes where there was land closures unexpectedly and how did you guys deal with that? So yes, yes, we've had our share of challenges. For the most part, we've been pretty lucky. There has been times where um we might have mapped something out and even vetted it, and then in the end, it turned out not to be the best place to run a route. So we've had to make some corrections. that's also part of the heavy lift that BDR takes on with every new route. That's another thousand miles of tracks that we're responsible for making sure that the community has the most up-to-date tracks and we're sending all these people out in the right direction. So yeah, we've had our challenges. It's gonna happen with, especially with, you know, close to 22,000 miles now, but we try to, you know, we try to rectify the situation as quickly as possible and as nimbly as possible. We've got a great team for that, so. Once the routes are established, how do people access them online? What kind of download capabilities or mapping software can they utilize for these routes? So the routes are provided in uh a GPS format. So anybody who plans to write a BDR route would go to our website, ridebdr.com and download the free GPS tracks. And they can either use a GPS device like Garmin, uh Zumo XT or something like that. Or they can navigate with a phone and a phone navigation app like ON-X or GAIA. So that's the navigation part, but on the website, there's also wealth of information on, you know, very detailed descriptions about every section of the route. We provide resources on where they can stay, where they can camp, food options and things like that. So really it's a turnkey motorcycle itinerary that the organization provides for people and makes it really easy for them to do, to make to do an adventure of a lifetime, which is what BDRs are. If I can add to that, there's another resource that we have beyond the website, which is really rich in information. If you're going to do a BDR route, absolutely go to that specific page and soak in it all because there's so much to learn on those pages. An interactive map where you can actually go through the entire route. um and also look at it from different layers. So you can look at that current point, are there wildfires happening right now? Is there snow packs still in the mountains? So that is an amazing resource. But the other great um resource that we've developed for our riders is individual Facebook group pages for each route. And what's nice about that is that um that's real time information. People that are out on the route can post and say, you know, or I'm about to go out on the route, anybody out there, what does this look like? I heard this was closed. Is this back open again? What's the go around? And so it's a great way for um our community to number one, build community, make friends, uh maybe find other riders that want to go on an epic adventure with them and communicate real time. So that has been a real success. It's also a lot of work because now we've got 22 Facebook group pages. And that's where we put our ambassadors to work. They wind up being, you know, helping to moderate those pages. Because I will add one more thing about that is we try to keep, it's very important that we keep those about the route. If the discussion goes to, um I'm trying to sell a bike or what oil do you use on this? You know, no, no, no. That's not what this is about. It's real information, real time about the routes. Running a Facebook group is not for the faint of heart. So trying to do that, like you said, it was maybe okay in the beginning when you had a couple, but 22 and building is a ton to manage. And I didn't know those existed actually. So after this podcast, I'll be going and joining a lot of those groups. What goes into picking lodging that is on the routes and how do you guys make considerations for that? if I recall, some routes have more maybe lodging options and some are more like heavily camping options. Yeah, each route is different. And what we try to do is to end every section of the route, which, you know, on the main BDRs, there might be seven sections on a BDR-X loop. may be three sections, but we always make sure we start and end a section at a small town. you know, it's like, we go through some of the most rural towns and we specifically designed the routes to to go through the most rural parts of the state. But we make sure that there's a gas stop, to sleep, a place to eat, and then camping options at the end of each section. uh And normally it's not your big box hotel chains that are serving the adventure community. It's these small mom and pop stores or restaurants or uh hotels, motels that are so happy to see to have an influx of adventure motorcyclists patronizing their business because in these small towns, some of them may be like population 37, and there's not much out there and there's no industry happening anymore. so what BDR does is provide these small towns with an influx of riders who are spending money at these businesses. and really helping invigorate some of these small rural communities. So it's another mission of the organization is to provide economic impacts to the rural communities along the BDR routes. Do you find that the communities are super receptive from the beginning or does it sometimes take some time to prove to them that you're not intruding or overtaking their small town feel? Yeah, I think there might be a learning curve in some cases, right? Because we're all motorcyclists. can talk about this. Motorcyclists ripping through town sometimes aren't the best look for a town, right? I mean, let's be honest. uh But adventure riders tend to be a mature group of people um and ones with means as well. And so they spend money. um once that little town starts to hit a groove, in the life cycle of the route, I think that they all kind of come around to that absolutely 100 % bring it on. I mean, think about it, Heather, if you're a small town out in the middle of, let's say, Nevada, right? And you get very little traffic in the summer season or whatever season. And then all of sudden, groups of eight to to 12 riders come in and book every room in your hotel and they all fill up their gas tanks and they all have breakfast and dinner, know, dinner that night, breakfast the next morning. It's not too, you know, it doesn't take too long to figure out this is a good thing. um And just add to that on one point is that we actually um have done two economic impact studies, which were really big for us. um And let me step back for a second um and say that I think uh In the beginning when BDR was founded, this byproduct of us running these routes, a byproduct of helping these small towns, I don't think it was an immediate realization. But then when it started to come to light, the organization was like, wow, this is a really great thing. We need to lean into that. And then it probably became one of the criteria of where we run these routes. um Getting back to the economic impact study, we did two. We did one in 2017, correct me if I'm wrong, and one in 2022. And just to give you a difference in that time, I think in 2017, we probably only had about seven routes. I think the economic impact, total monies from out of state that was being put to these small towns was 17. million dollars. Cross all the routes. Yeah. And then in 2022, we had more like 10 or 11 routes in that area. That number jumped to $60 million. So $60 million are riders and this is the ones we know of, right? So the $60 million is going to these small towns across the United States. So something we're super proud of. it's so great to kind of revitalize these communities and doing it in such a positive way. And of course, motorcyclists love the scenery in a lot of these rural communities. So I think it's a really great partnership and it just kind of naturally fits. Once you, like you said, get your groove and they, realize you're not a threat and they get that maybe big, bad biker image out of their mind and realize what adventure riders are, who they are. it's a good partnership. It's so cool. You know, when we release her out and I remember in the Southeast, Tim, the, the, hotel that you guys all stayed at, at the beginning of the Southeast route, um, they just love us. They saw such an increase in, uh, you know, hotel room sales that they actually started like a BDR rider package where if they know that it's, it's the BDR riders that are booking the room. they have a special like gift package with water and chocolates and whatnot to welcome the riders, you know, and uh they send us a check every year because they just are stunned that we're sending so many riders that are staying at that hotel. And same with the towns too, like we had an incredible story of friendship with this town, Damascus in Virginia. uh that is at the end of the southeast route and beginning of the mid-Atlantic route. um They put up flags in the middle of the town, one with the arrow to mid-Atlantic, one to southeast. They just see the impact, like real impact that the BDR riders bring to the community. They really embraced it. They're an amazing community. actually since now that we're intersecting those two really popular routes, they have since started an annual ADV festival. So they have a rally in town every year. um that's a case where a town completely embraced the opportunity. they're kind of an outdoorsy town. There's a bunch of trails that kind of go through there. Appalachian Trail goes through. There's another. the famous mountain biking trail that goes through. they are already kind of leaned in that way, but the BDR, they just open arms. They love us and we love them. So BDR is also known for the documentary films that accompany each route launch. Where did the idea for those films come from and how important do you feel like it's been in storytelling and growing awareness for the routes in general? think the films are one of the unique parts of the BDR. know, the founders, starting with the Oregon route when they rode the original route and created the film and then got inspired and created the Washington route, the filming was always a big part of the BDR experience because they realized that if the riders see what our scouting team experiences on the route, they would want to do it too. not only are we showing the route itself and the challenges and landscapes, there's also personal stories of riders and the films are really an inspiration to the community. They're free on YouTube. They're educational and they show the true experience of the BDR. So I think that's a huge, huge part of what we deliver to the community and how we inspire people to go and Explore the backcountry of the U.S. by motorcycle. It seems like it's also positively impacting dealerships and bringing them foot traffic because I don't know if this idea came from the BDR team or the dealership community, but a lot of dealerships I've seen will host the screenings and bring people in for a community showing, like going to the movie theater, but in the dealership. So I think that's great for dealerships to bring foot traffic in and build that community once again. Yeah, it's this kind of perfect scenario that we've developed over the years. that's, we roll out one big route every year, our cross state routes. And then currently we're doing that in three BDRXs a year. That's our current cadence. But the big route always launches somewhere in late January, early February and does a film tour throughout the country at dealerships. Some clubs will also do it. For us, that's our way of also giving back to the industry because, you know, Heather, your family was in motorcycle dealership business for a long time, right? I would imagine filling the showroom floor with about 100 riders in the middle of February is not a bad thing, right? So it's been a really good recipe for us to get. get the messaging out there and for dealers to help drive sales for dealers. and helped build a community for them because yeah, it's not easy to get a hundred excited adventure riders who are actively planning their motorcycle trip and looking for bikes and gear and service. so it is such a great partnership with the OEMs and their dealerships to help them build their community. And some of these dealers, They've hosted films over the years. They might've started five years ago with 30 people in the room, but then the next year it's 50 and then it's a hundred. so I feel like we've really been the catalyst, not just for the industry and all the brands that have developed alongside BDR over these 16 years, but yeah, also helping sustain the motorcycle industry and helping these dealers have. better sales and grow their adventure riding community. So it definitely have been a win-win. um For the BDXs, we don't do a film tour, but we do a live YouTube broadcast where on the release day, we do this live broadcast. have special guests, route architects who kind of give behind the scenes information, how the route was created, ah you know, some of the highlights of the route. And then we show the film. live online and then it lives on YouTube after that. the live YouTube broadcast aspect has also been kind of fun. We started in 2020 during COVID year when we didn't have a route to release and no film tour, but we did a 10 year retrospective of the BDR during the live broadcast. And then we were like, wow, that's kind of a cool concept. Let's do that for the BDR-X routes. The film tour and the broadcast just helps more riders discover BDR and discover adventure riding. I remember watching that broadcast and I feel like it was just last year and so it's kind of scary to me how fast time passes. Yeah. You know, the other thing that we do, Heather, for those those dealer screenings is if available, we'll send a BDR ambassador out there to tee up the film and to answer any questions. So it's also a good way to get, you know, kind of inside insider information about the route as you're you're planning, because our ambassadors, you know, they know it all. I mean, they know what's going on. We keep them. briefed on everything, new developments, what's up next. And that's typically what people want to know when they run into, what's next? Are you coming to our state? We're getting there. We promise. Just like we said to you, Heather, we're getting there. Tim and I were talking pre-recording too about the dealership landscape and my parents owned a KTM and Husqvarna dealership here in central Ohio for 48 years and they just retired and sold the dealership last year and that community piece, that engagement piece with your customers is so critical. That's the difference that I see between a lot of successful dealerships and dealerships that come and go is really how much effort they're putting into going to events or hosting events or getting the community involved because just to have somebody walk in and purchase a motorcycle and walk out the door and not have any engagement with them ongoing, just isn't a really great atmosphere or like an ongoing customer relationship. So the more that I feel like dealerships can leverage outside partners like BDR with these m films or even other. riding organizations in their area. feel like, again, I'm a huge fan of collaboration in the industry whenever it can happen and that we're all going to build a stronger industry and community working together. So I feel like these are just pieces that fit together naturally. Yeah, you couldn't be more on point with that, Heather. I've been in the marketing industry a long time as well, specifically in motorcycles. there's nothing more important than building a community for the dealership. when dealerships kind of resist doing a screening, I just scratch my head and say, you guys, see the light. You get more people, get in the door, and the more networking you do, and the more you give back to the community, the more they're going to come in and buy their next motorcycle or get service there or buy parts. You know, it's just, it's so simple. As far as like challenges that the organization faces when it comes to route development or land access or growth, is there anything that sticks out in your mind currently that you guys are running into? Or is it kind of the same, same old, maybe small issues that you run into? No, I feel like there's new issues that are coming up now that we have grown into this nationwide movement. our routes exist entirely on public lands and public roads. which is one of the things that is so unique about adventure motorcycling in the U S we just have access to incredible public lands. but the access is not guaranteed forever, right? And so, and in fact, we've seen that recently when there was a, in Congress, there was a proposition to start selling off uh public lands for development, right? And the community, the public land user community, that some of these groups at some points, may be on the opposite sides of the issue, but we all came together. The hunters, the fishermen, the hikers, the bicyclists, the motorcyclists, the OHV users, we all came together and defeated that proposition. So that was a huge goal or huge accomplishment for us. And not that, you know, they're not going to try to do that again, but it was really incredible to see how the community of public users came together and, uh you know, stood up for access to public lands and I feel like in the future, this is going to be our fight. We're trying to make a concerted effort to partner with other organizations who will fight for access, specifically the American Motorcycle Association, AMA. In fact, we've had a couple uh issues that we worked with them on and won. this fight is just gonna intensify into the future. And so that's one of our goals is make sure that we stay on top of all the issues that are happening, which there's so many and we're internally, we don't have, I guess the experience to be the boots on the ground. We do as a board decided that we wanna invest more in our access and advocacy efforts and partnering with organizations like AMA. but we just need to remember that, you know, if we want future generations to have access to public lands, like we're going to have to fight for it more and more. Advocacy is a very complex landscape. kind of dabble in that a little bit. sit on a lot of off-road and trail committees here in Ohio. But I mean, the acronyms, the jargon, all the government stipulations, how funding works, I mean, it gets very, very complicated very quickly for the average person. Yeah. that's one of the reasons that we're forming a very much tighter bond with that organization, because they do have that in-depth knowledge of that process and can bring, you know, situations to light for us. And then we've got our community that we've got the big megaphone, right? So as do they. So it's kind of a perfect marriage. Right. And so that's been evolving over the last couple of years. I sit on a committee at the AMA as well. a subcommittee of their board for the recreational riding. So we kind of share knowledge and it's a great opportunity for us to expand that relationship. Yeah, absolutely. The more people that you can bring together to have those conversations, the more work and attention that we can give to those issues, for sure. I want to take a look ahead to see what projects and routes you guys are currently working on. it sounds like there's a lot going on in the background more than I would have even guessed, but what are some of the immediate projects that people will be seeing in maybe the next year or two? Yeah, I mean, our goal is to expand the network of BDR routes across North America and beyond. So we've just released Montana. The next route that's coming out will be the Ozarks BDR-X on April 2nd. We'll be releasing that during the live broadcast. After that, we have Adirondacks in New York in May. That release will happen at the Americade rally and it'll be a YouTube broadcast. then I think we'll probably release the Hell's Canyon, Idaho BDR-X route towards the fall. And then we're filming tons of routes this year. And like Tim mentioned, the cadence will be one main route and three BDR-Xs a year. We're also working on routes in Canada with the local Canadian riders. And man, Bryce has 30, 40 BDR-X loops. that are in the works. it's, yeah, it's a lot Yeah, he's the mad scientist of mapping. swear, know, we were at a board retreat a couple of years ago. And at that time we were doing one big route and one BDR-X a year. And he proposed, guys, we got to do more. We got to do more. We got to deliver more. And he whips out this spreadsheet that I swear it was like six feet long. of where he wants to do the next routes. And I think we all just looked at each other. And during that session, decided that the new cadence would be this one and three a year, which the same amount of people. oh So that's a good point to make is that it put an extra load on BDR and all of our staff and our volunteers. But we're going to do it. We're going to do it. What was the, it was funding first, right? I think we talked about, because an important part of the puzzle here is funding. we, you know, we're nonprofit organization and, our funding comes from, correct me if I'm wrong here, if it's still around, it's about 90 % of our funding comes from the community. And that often takes people by surprise because they think that it's, coming from the sponsors and the sponsors are very generous. Don't take this the wrong way. But the truth of the matter is it only accounts for about 10 % of our overall on fundraising. So that's amazing. It comes from the individuals who ride our routes or want to ride our routes. in order to create more routes, we need more funding. so it's like throughout the year, not only we create and mastermind the routes, but we're always thinking like, how can we raise more money? know, and thankfully we have been so lucky that the community has been supporting BDR year after year, right? Because anybody who rides a BDR, they... They have such incredible experience, like a life-changing experience. And sometimes they ride with friends. Like we have group of guys or girls who every year they plan a ride on the new route that was released. sometimes it's like they do two BDRs a year and that's their vacation for the year. ah I get emails from ah like a parent who tells us, how incredible, like how much BDR influenced their relationship with their kid because they ride together and they also ride with their grandpa. So sometimes there's like three generations of riders riding a BDR and connecting. And ah naturally when they come home, they want to give back to the organization so that we can continue creating these routes. So, you know, we have a variety of fundraising opportunities throughout the year and we've been really blessed with how generous. our community of riders has been, it's really been incredible. And I think the organization, at least a few years, has given away a motorcycle as part of that fundraising effort. And I have not won it yet, darn it, but I have tried a couple of times. Yeah, the bike sweepstakes is just one of the ways we raise money. It's a big chunk of our fundraising for the year. We also have our supporter program where not only you donate to BDR, you get discounts and gifts in return. We have our annual fundraiser ride this year. It's coming up in Southern California in May. ah What else, Tim? We've got, I can't believe you're not going to mention your holiday auction. auction, the holiday auction. Let me tell you how hard Inna and her team works on to put together the holiday auction, which happens every December. it's a website full of items and packages, either experiences or accessories or you name it, all different types of things to bid on. And she crushed it this year, crushed it. I was just looking at some of the swag on the website before this call and do you have an entire merch store? Because my husband was, I was telling him that I was going to interview you guys and he was like, I'd like a BDR hat and a sweatshirt. And I was like, would you, you know, and uh I'm wondering if you guys have that on your website so I can go buy it for his birthday or something. 100%. And that's another way that we fundraise is that, and that's something we started a couple of years ago with a couple of items and it has grown to be a significant part of our income. So yeah, we've got some really good stuff and new items. Go check it out. But the big part of the store, of course, is the BDR maps that we produce. course. Yeah. So it's a big chunk of our fundraising for sure is the store. Yeah, think I can't remember the number. Maybe you can. But when we launched Montana about a month ago, uh I can't remember how many maps we sold that day. But it was like an unreal number of maps. It was crazy. So people actually, they wait for that launch date. To kind of wrap things up for today, if somebody is listening and they're inspired to go ride a BDR, what quick advice would you give them for getting started and really making sure that they have a great experience? I mean, I would say go to our website, ridebdr.com. That is the foundation of all the resources that we provide to the community. Decide on what route you would like to do. We have a really cool digital map on the website so you can see where there's the closest route in proximity to you. ah And then download the free tracks, study all the travel resources, buy the map, watch the documentary film. And then if you're a completely new rider, would say take an off-road training course and practice riding with the fully loaded bike on a, you know, maybe a couple of days or an overnight trip because it's, it's one thing to train on a small dirt bike on the off-road course, but it's a completely different thing when you load your bike with all your camping gear. you're camping. and then you ride for 10 days straight, day after day after day. So you need stamina to do the routes. You need to make sure you can navigate safely in the back country. figuring out your navigation app or unit uh and knowing how to upload the tracks and work with tracks. that's really important. Making sure you have an emergency plan or some kind of emergency beacon or what do you do if you had an accident in the back country? Don't ride by yourself, we always say, make sure you have some riding buddies. ah Other than that, it's really accessible. The other thing I might suggest if you're kind of on the fence of doing this on your own, you've never done it before, uh we have some uh touring partners and rental companies that will actually do tours on our motorcycles and sometimes even offer a training tour. So it's kind of good way to do it. And the point that Inna made about doing it with a loaded motorcycle, it makes a big difference. And most of the schools that you can... you can get training, they don't train with loaded motorcycles. So getting some field experience on that, I think, is really good because the motorcycles handle differently when they're weighed down. Yeah, absolutely. Great advice. And thank you, Inna and Tim for joining me today. And thanks to everybody for tuning into Momentum. This has been a production of High Gear Success. If you want to connect or recommend a guest, head to MomentumMotorsportsPodcast.com. Until next time, keep the momentum rolling.