Welcome to Momentum, a motorsports podcast powered by High Gear Success. I'm your host, Heather Wilson-Shilts. Here we share the stories and strategies that keep the world of motorsports moving forward. Joining me today is David Gay, Senior ORV Development Technician at Polaris and the 2024 Champ Off-Road Pro-Am Side-by-Side Champion. So David, how's your summer going? ah Decent so far. ah It's been good and bad. I've had some success, some learnings, some trials and tribulations, I guess you'd call it. But I'm definitely using this year as a development year for the new class I stepped into. So taking everything and just basically learning and not getting too caught up on the actual results and looking to make this kind of a two-year plan to really put together next year. Yeah, absolutely. And you stepped up to the pro stock class this year in championship off road. Um, you raced pro am last year, but what has that experience been like making that move up to that class? You, kind of alluded to some trials and tribulations, but what's been different about that class than last year? The big thing is being able to qualify. So last year, it was a mandatory 10 invert no matter what. So with your first place in points, you're starting 10th. ah And last year, the first round was a random draw and I started 27th or 28th. And then I was the points leader from there on out. So I was starting 10th for every round after that. So for this year, you get to qualify. And they only invert out to six. So here in the top six, you're somewhere you can, you can be part of the invert. And I so far, other than the first weekend in Missouri, I've been part of the invert every weekend so far. So it's been nice to actually start somewhere towards ish the front, not midway ah back in the pack. So that's been, it's been huge. Yeah, it's been a learning experience for me. had a client in Champ Off-Road a couple of years ago, just learning kind of the format of those races and what that invert means and how they score things. So it's a little bit of a learning curve coming from a more traditional motorcycle background. Yep, for sure. So it's, it's helped a lot this year, I'd say so far. Um, you know, there's other, other aspects that come in during the race that, know, I've, I've started up front, but I've been, you know, my, mindset wasn't right. I've been too antsy and I've immediately put myself in a hole and I had to dig out of for the rest of the race. So, was a bit of a mentality shift there, uh, where last year I had to pass, you know, every, at any opportunity. I possibly could as fast as I possibly could, otherwise I would just run out of race time to get to the front. Or this year I'm starting more towards the front. The races are longer so I can kind of chill and, you know, relax for a minute and like be methodical about my passes. Uh, and that's kind of a mindset shift. I've, I've had to learn on the fly. didn't, I didn't have that grasp completely the first few races. So. Made some mistakes that way, but I'm learning. Yeah. So you're competing at tracks like Crandon, Bark River, ERX. Do you have a favorite that stands out to you? I definitely prefer the tighter, more technical tracks. So, Antigo and Dirt City are the two tightest tracks in the series and I happen to perform well there, I guess. That just fits my driver technique or whatever you want to call it. So, I prefer those two. As far as the fun aspect, ERX is definitely the most fun track. So if I were just to pick a track to go spin laps at, it'd definitely be our ERX and it's convenient because it's less than an hour away. But as far as racing, it's a lot harder to pass there. ah So I'd have to stick with the two tighter kind of bullring tracks as they call it. So kind of transitioning and talk a little bit about your role at Polaris. Did you know that you wanted to work in motorsports or was it something that you just fell into after getting your degree? Uh, I kind of knew I wanted to work in motor sports. So that's, it's, it's a bit of a process to how I got to Polaris. Um, all throughout high school, I was kind of your typical kid that really enjoyed shop class and really disliked English and other things. So like that, like that. you know, my dad was pushing me really hard. I was also pretty good at math. Like I was, couple of grades advanced math my whole high school career so I was good with numbers but my dad really was pushing me to go to engineering school and I just I liked the hands-on aspect of schooling and anything I did and one day in my automotive technology class a rep came in for Universal Technical Institute which is a school you basically go to to train to be a dealership technician for in the automotive world. Well, while he's there, he also showed that they have Motorcycle Mechanics Institute and Marine Mechanics Institute, I think is the other MMI. But anyway, Motorcycle Mechanics Institute, he, presented on that and that's where it kind of clicked in my head. It's like, I really like dirt bikes and four wheelers and anything power sports related. And you're telling me I can go make money. wrenching on stuff that I do for fun on the weekends anyways, like that's what I want to do. so that's, kind of made up my mind there. Like I wanted to wrench on, you know, power sports stuff for a living. yeah, that was kind of a hard conversation, breaking that to my dad. pretty much disowned me for a little while, but I was pretty firm in what I wanted to do. And, know, I went to school to, to. Yeah, basically be a dealership technician, down in the dealership world for a couple of years after, um, found stuff I liked and didn't like about it. And I don't know, kind of explored like what else is out there that I'm qualified to do. And it's like, well, I could, I could be a technician for an OEM. Like that's a possibility that I'm, you know, my degree would qualify me for. So I kind of started looking around and, I, there's two OEMs in the state here of Minnesota. There's Arctic Cat and Polaris. And when I was looking, I, there was nothing at Polaris I was qualified for. I actually went to Arctic Cat first and I was a four stroke engine development technician there for a little while. Uh, building up engines that went on engine dynos and tearing them down and whatnot. And, uh, that was up in Thief River Falls, Minnesota, which is way Northwest corner of the Minnesota. Like there's nothing. Nothing else around. like, I was really passionate about what I did, but like when you left work, you didn't have anything to do. And I wasn't by my friends or family or anything. So I kinda, I went up there in hopes I'd moved to St. Cloud, which is close to the twin cities after a couple of years. But that whole plan kinda, kinda went south while I was there. So then I started looking elsewhere and. I had a friend, Justin, who worked at Polaris and he gave me the heads up of the position I'm in now that it was coming down the pipe and made sure he got my name in and I formally applied and all that and ended up getting the job. um So I was an engine build technician and then I am now a CVT development technician. ah So it was kind of a shift in roles going from building engines to. clutching and whatnot, but I don't know, just kind of fell in love with what I do and it's near home, near friends. Like it just kind of fits and I love it. Yeah, and you've been at Polaris, I think, eight years now, right? Yep, eight years last month. And you primarily work on the RZR platform. So what are some of the projects that you're working on day to day? You mentioned the clutches, but what are some of the, I guess, the nitty gritty activities that you get into? So actual projects, that's classified. uh But what I do day to day, so as a CVT development technician, I am the tech out in the shop that performs testing to help design and validate the clutch system, CVT system. So anything to do with the clutches themselves, the belt, the... clutch box architecture and how it flows air and rejects heat through the clutch box, the ah transmission ratio we select, ah all of that, ah the actual calibration of the vehicles. So there's, I guess we'll call it four main components of the CVT system that makes it operate the drive spring, the shift weight, the driven spring and the helix. And I will... step through and take data and perform testing to figure out what we need out of those four components. But I am not the person to design the components. So I'll tell my, you know, coworker, the engineer like, Hey, I need this weight, but I need it two grams lighter. need this Helix, but you know, a couple of degrees this direction or that direction or whatever. And they'll go design it and then they'll bring the parts back to me to test. So you mentioned being good at math earlier. I'm assuming there's a lot of math kind of involved in those calculations, or is it something that you're just kind of messing with a little bit to see what performs better? yes and no. Um, there's some stuff where it's just like, well, that was a little low. Like let's take a little weight out and bump it up a little bit. There's other stuff where we get pretty deep into, spreadsheets to, determine belt load and kind of predict stuff before it even goes in the vehicle. Um, I dabble that a little bit. yeah, it's, it's a lot of like, there's certain calculations that we had to figure out initially, and now we can just like input, a few different things into those calculations and just run it since we've kind of developed our tools. Do you take rider feedback from other drivers or are you going out to test this on actual terrain yourself? And how does that kind of play into developing? All of the above. So there's a lot I do at work here in Minnesota. During the summertime and during the wintertime, there's a few things we can do outside, but we do a lot of our work during the summer. During the winter, yeah, we go to the Southwest where it's warm to perform a lot of infield like limit testing. But we also take a lot of feedback from our field test drivers and other, you know, Let's say the suspension team is going out to do their thing and they have some feedback like, Hey, we noticed this or what's up with that. Or, you always kind of take input from other people. Uh, and then we, what we do is we put data to their input to verify, like, this is why they're telling us their subjective feedback. Like that way we have a target that we can like shift or get to, uh, that way it's, it's, you know, there's always. some sort of number to the problem we're trying to solve. Is there a lot of like cross functional collaboration between different teams within Polaris to kind of help develop that product? Yeah, it's pretty much a daily thing that we're talking to, like, especially with my system, I deal with the engine calibration guys, engine hardware guys, the other driveline ah folks. So it's kind of a daily thing where all of our systems kind of mesh in one way or another, and we go back and forth, especially early in the development process of the vehicle, as it starts getting on its way where things are kind of set in, where we're just running off our tests with the to do to validate it. We don't talk as much because we're just kind of validating our own systems and stuff just tends to work. But yeah, definitely early on in the life of the vehicle, it's a daily thing. Yeah. Do you feel like your role at Polaris has helped you as a racer as well? I'd say so. This topic kind of comes up a fair amount. There's a lot to. Uh, how do I put this? There's a lot of knowledge I've gained and applied to my vehicle and whatnot, but there's also a lot of just myself being a driven individual, where, there's, there's some stuff I don't really know what I'm, you know, it's not my expertise, but I have to figure it out in the race car. And I just have the driver, I, I'll fall on my face, you know, a half a dozen times before I figure it out, but I just won't stop until I do figure it out. So there's, there's definitely both aspects of it, but my specific system, I feel like I've got a pretty good handle on it. It's definitely helped me fine tune that. And my specific system happens to be a big part of, you know, what kind of makes you competitive or not competitive in this racing. Yeah. For championship off road in the short course racing, does it take a pretty big team to make all of that happen at the races? Or do you have a kind of a small core group that helps you at the track? you'll get different answers from different people. Some people, have the, you know, it takes a village mentality. Um, I'm in the other camp. It's myself, my wife, and I'm sure you know him, but, uh, Neil Larsen he used to be my, direct competitor racing quads before I made the discipline switch, but he's my spotter. you were required to have a spotter in this discipline of racing. So it's just us three for the weekend and we kind of just do whatever it takes. And sometimes that means wearing more hats than you'd really like on a weekend, but it's what it takes. So we do it. Yeah. And it's kind of a long weekend too, because there's usually two days of racing, correct? Yep. So we, we get, we travel to the track Thursday after work, practice qualifying is Friday and then you race Saturday and race Sunday. So yeah, you can roll into the track pretty early on, on Thursdays, but we all choose to, you know, work a full work day and have pretty much everything buttoned up and ready to go. when we get home at four, whatever we leave for the track and you know, the tracks are on average four to six and a half hours away. So we get to the track pretty late Thursday night, but just kind of our method. Ever wish you had an expert in your corner to bounce podcasting ideas off of? Or maybe you're dreaming of launching a show but don't know where to begin. Pedal Stomper Productions offers a free, no allegation, no pitch podcast consultation. I've worked with the owner Josh on a few projects, plus he's a fellow motorcycle rider. He's not there to sell you anything. 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So I have a couple different suspension calibrations for those two different types of tracks. and then just being prepared for a mud race. you know, in motocross, there's a lot that goes into mud prep that I've kind of figured out like. how to translate that into this discipline as well. So luckily I haven't had a full on mutter yet, but we're ready whenever it comes. know, tire selection, clutching and all that. I kind of find a setup that just works and I just roll with it. I'm sure you'll get different answers from different folks that change everything for every little tweak of the track conditions, but I'm in the opposite. I try to keep it as simple as possible. It just, you know, it's a lot. It's a easier on me mentally and I know, just, figure out how to make it work. So let's roll with it. Yeah, you're more adjusting how you're driving the machine than the machine itself. Yeah, yeah, I don't get too caught up uh in the details in the grand scheme of things. Yeah, you could just tweak how you drive a little bit and it's probably, you know, will make a bigger difference than a different little component for a different track condition. So, yeah. So you mentioned racing other disciplines before. Obviously I knew you when you raced ATVs, but you also started with dirt bikes. So where did that inspiration come from and when did that start? Uh, soon as I got off a training wheels, basically, my dad got me a PW 50 and my first is weird. I actually remember my very first day on a dirt bike when I was like four years old, my dad told me like, here's the gas, use the brakes. All right, go for it. And I just cracked it wide open and drove out of the shop. And like, there was a little, a turnaround with like a, you know, a hill basically. And then you go over the hill. And on the other side of the gravel driveway, there was a big oak tree. And I just went wide open and up and over that and just biffed it in the uh gravel right before I like, right before I almost smoked that big tree. And I was like scarred for life. Like I didn't want to get back on it. And it took, you know, convincing for my dad to like, it was like a whole afternoon ordeal for him to get me back on the bike. And after that, he like walked me through and actually taught me how to. to operate the controls and whatnot. So then it was a lot more enjoyable. And yeah, I was basically, in love with dirt bikes until like I was 15, 16, somewhere in there. Um, I had always wanted to race, but my parents, I guess, I don't know, more or less excuse for not letting me race was, until you can touch the ground with your toes or your feet. We're not going to let you race because I was kind of, I always had a bike that was one size bigger than I really should have like went from a 65. We skipped the 85 step went right to a 125 and like, so. Yeah, I mean, you're not a short guy. So it really wasn't like a, you're short excuse. It was more of a, hey, we don't have you on the right bike fitment maybe. Yeah. Yeah. So, so in there, like, you know, I just, we go to public tracks and whatnot and like, I got my fix in, but my little brother didn't really take the two wheel thing as much. And, my dad got him a four wheeler and, you know, I started to like, like, Hey, Jimmy, can I take your quad for a rip? He's like, yeah, sure. So I started to ride both of them and just kind of. I don't know, over time graduated or gravitated towards the four wheeler. I don't know, I'm not still to this day, like I like it all like dirt bikes, quads, side by sides, like, whatever, like I'm, I like all that I'm not a polarizing person where I got to choose one discipline or the other, like, I like it all. I'll be I just happen to have more fun on a four wheeler. So it came time to The uh feet not touching the ground excuse didn't work anymore. So yeah, they let me, uh, let me race a fair race and figured out pretty quickly that the sport quad that they had bought for my brother and I wasn't really up to the task. So kind of had to make the call. Like, do you want to go back to your dirt bike or do we need to invest in a four wheeler that you can actually race? And at that point I was just like, I want to race the four wheeler. So. Yeah, got an actual YFZ 450 race quad and that's kind of what propelled me to where I'm at now. just, yeah, fell in love with it and my whole life kind of revolves around it. So I assume you probably started racing more local regional ATV stuff before you stepped up to the national series. Yep. So the first couple of years I just did a series called Motokazie. It's mostly like fair races and whatnot. Then I graduated to districts. So the Minnesota district is district 23 and I did that for quite a few years. In that time, I moved to Phoenix, Arizona to go to MMI and that was like a two and a half year deal. And then I came back. Yeah, still did the districts and You know, I kind of got noticed at the districts and got told that I should really go, pursue nationals. And I was kind of reluctant about it because it was, was financially and I guess time consuming enough just to go do districts. Uh, and where I live, the nationals aren't, you know, a few hours away. Like some other folks are it's the closest one, six and a half hours and farthest ones. don't even know how, I don't even know how far away. Yeah. 20, 20 plus hours. So it was like, yeah, that'd be cool. And I feel like I can be competitive, but like. That's not feasible for a person like me. but yeah, then I had a guy offer to kind of help support me getting there. And then, that, that took care of the, financial side. And then was still like, well, I don't have enough. I don't have a job where I can just, you know, take off for the summer and all that. so I need to be able to fly to the races to make this happen. So then I got ahold of my buddy Leon. and yeah kind of worked it out with him in the Londervilles like hey I really want to make this happen for a season would you guys be willing to basically cart my stuff around I'll do whatever I can to you know kind of pay the favor back and whatnot and yeah so they yeah let me come for the for the season and Yeah, I just basically wanted to go do that one national season. And just to say I did it because Like, I this was kind of a one and done deal. So I just made the best of it. And yeah, after that, was, that was kind of, kind of it for, I done all I wanted to do in the world of four wheelers. So. So you stepped up to side by sides. The series is a little bit more local for you, primarily Midwest. You don't have to probably travel too far. But what was the environment change like going from ATV Nationals to championship off road? that's a bit of a complicated question. so the first season I had, a good coworker of mine, Robert Loire He was actually in the pro turbo class, like one of the top pros and he's kind of who mentored me and got me into it. and really he's the only person I knew and he had his whole crew that he pitted with and they're all good buddies. So like, I showed up and I was allowed to pit with them, but still kind of felt like an an outsider, like he didn't really know anybody but Robert, but made the best of it. And then, my very first race, uh, you're supposed to go through tech inspection before and after the race. And, I was, I got fourth, my very first race. And so the top three went to the podium. And then I was the first to lead the rest of the class off the track to head back to the trailer as well. I was so jazzed that I got. fourth, my very first side by side race ever, like going to post tech, like it wasn't even a thought in my head. was back to the trailer like, woo, yeah, we got fourth. Like, this is awesome. meanwhile, like, I don't know, handful at least five people that were right behind me, like saw me not go to tech and instead of like waving me down and going, Hey buddy, like get messed up, get back over here. They just went to tech and protested me and got me DQ'd. uh Not exactly a super supportive environment Yeah. So that kind of set the tone. Like, all right. I guess I'm not here to make friends. And I don't know. kind of, was, I, me being the person I am, I would have very much like, if I was roles were reversed, right? Like I would have like chased them down, like made sure that all was good with them and whatnot where, you know, it's kind of how it always, I always went in four wheelers was you know, everybody lifting each other up like that. And I was just kind of very off putting for me anyways, for that to happen. But I don't know, I moved past that and now like I'm pretty good buddies with everybody in the class. And even though I moved up classes and make sure to cheer them on and help out any way I can. So it's, it's as I've gotten to know more people, it's been very fun and it's, it's turned back into the four wheeler environment where everybody's like, there to lift each other up. So just a little rough go at it. very first race but whatever. And it's always like hard because you're like, like you said, you were pumped about doing well. And then they're probably thinking like, who's this new guy who's doing so well. But I'm with you on, I'm much more in like the spirit of collaboration and helping each other out than like protesting somebody that did better than me. So yeah, that's a rough lesson to learn. Yeah, but I mean, there's, I mean, there's been plenty other rough self-inflicted lessons I've had to learn moving to this discipline, but it's just, it's just part of it. So what's kind of next for your racing career? What are some of your ambitions or plans to finish out the season or even going forward? So for the rest of the season, like I said, this year I came into the year with the mentality that this is kind of a, a minimum, a two year plan for pro stock. First year here is just a development year. I'm going to try stuff. It's either going to work or not work. So if it doesn't work, like I can't get too caught up in the weekend to weekend finishes on paper. it's me trying things to figure it all out. figure out the pace of the class, figure out, you know, how people in the class operate. Like, I don't know, everyone has their own, personality, but they also have their own personality when they're behind the wheel. yeah, so it's, it's very much a, a recon year basically to figure all of that out. Um, and yeah, I've had some success. I've had some stuff that I thought worked that didn't work. I've had some stuff that just straight up didn't work. so I've been taking notes all year and I'm currently fourth in points, which is honestly better than I thought I would be at this point in the season. Like coming into the season, I was just going to be excited if I could just like, you know, crack the top five here, there with everything I was going to try. But yeah, to be fourth in points, only a few off a third and second, like I know. I didn't care about points, but now I kind of care. whatever. But anyways, yeah, like I said, overall, though, it's a development year. Next year will be my year to very first race, come out, hit my marks, and do that every single race, just like I did last season in Pro-Am. So the Pro-Am class was kind of a two-year deal, too. The first year I learned, second year I came in, said, I'm settling for nothing less than a championship and hit my marks. So same mentality with pro stock. As far as after that, I don't know yet. Every, so this is my third season. So the last three winters have been every single day out here in the garage, basically till I can't walk anymore, just getting it done. And I'm kind of looking forward to this off season where I can just do the maintenance, do the few tweaks that I've learned over the season and just, you know, have a relaxing off season for once. so there is a class above pro stock. It's called pro side by side. it's the same skill level, same people I'm racing now, just another, a different vehicle. So it's for the, the, turbo RZRs the, the 2000 CC RZR Like, so it's just the. the high horsepower class basically. So at some point I might build a car for that class, but I'm in no hurry. I mean, I'm, this is very much a supplement to my professional career. I'm just here to have fun. And if I can finally get to a, a point where I can just wash, prep, relax, repeat like, I'll be content with that for a few years. So, but I mean, it's also like someone approaches me with some sort of contract or, something to push me up into the next class sooner. Like, I'm not going to immediately say no, um but I'm not going to go searching for it. Maybe you can help me clarify this. So I've been wondering when it comes to side-by-sides, are the terms UTV and side-by-side interchangeable or do those mean very different things? No, those are, those are interchangeable. Um, people start to throw fits when you call them bikes and whatnot, but whatever. But yeah, UTV side by side. So it's the same. I didn't know if the UTV stuff was like more, I mean, obviously they started off as utility vehicles and then transitioned into race machines. So I didn't know if there was really like a differentiating factor there or if they're all kind of lumped together. No, they're all kind of lumped together. I was gonna say, and then like you said, some people call them cars. I feel like sometimes they're called carts too. Yeah. cars, carts, like I said, they're at work. Like we all know what talking, you know, what vehicle we're referring to. So we call them bikes just cause we know it kind of rubs some other people the wrong way if they hear it, but we think it's funny. So we'll call them bikes even though they got four wheels. aah Yeah. And then like, as far as the, big thing I always see is particular to the RZR brand. So it's RZR and some people will call it literally like RZR not RZR And other people will spell it R-A-Z-O-R not RZR. So yeah, those are the two. Those are the two words like, all right, you got to figure that out. It's RZR That's like a marketing thing. So when they were developing that brand, if I was on the marketing team, I'd be asking all these questions. Like, are we sure that we want to spell it this way? We want it to be called this thing because yeah, open to interpretation out in the field. yeah. I'm sure there's some terms of, know, that people down in the southeast, I never get to see or talk to a call em that I haven't heard yet, but. Buggies. Yeah. Buggies are big down here in Ohio and West Virginia. That's what people call side by sides, especially the more casual, you know, trail riders. yeah. So many different names of the same machine, but so many different names. So you mentioned having to do a lot of work on the machine and the off season. So do you get to have any other hobbies other than work and race prep or is that pretty much your life. Um, I try to have other hobbies, but this ends up being my life. So, uh, I mean, like I said, I'm not, I'm not the type to do something halfway. So instead of going, ah, know, screw it. That's probably good enough. It's like, Nope, I'm going to spend the extra time and make sure it's as good as I could possibly get it, which in turn just takes up all my free time. Cause I'm never satisfied. I always want to make everything as good as I possibly can. Yeah. I that. Yeah, I used to snowboard, used to be in the BMX, used to be in the golf. And yeah, I kind of just don't do any of that now. Like when I get a free time, it's, I just want to relax and do nothing because I'm, I'm pretty, pretty burnt from, you know, I don't want to say burnt out. That's probably wrong terminology, you know, just yeah, exhausted. totally get that. Yeah, sometimes it's just nice to sit and do nothing. Yeah. And then like, I mean, I also like to go trail riding too. So, there are some free weekends where we'll take a, you know, a RZR or a ranger or something from work and go, go trail riding. So I'm not working on the race car, but I'm still on a side by side of some sort for the weekend. My particular role at work, like I said, we travel fairly often in the, in the winter time. So, you know, I get, I get plenty of miles and. whether I'm on or off the clock. Yeah. Can you tell us where people can connect with you online if you have some social media accounts or website to follow? Yeah, pretty much just Facebook and Instagram. Instagram is david.gay.294. um My number racing four wheelers was 294, so I just haven't really changed that yet. yeah, I said I don't have any fancy website or anything. So yeah. Cool. Yeah, absolutely. Well, I wish you the best in the rest of your race season and racing career. And uh thanks for catching up with us. All right, well, thanks for having me on. Thanks for tuning into Momentum. This has been a production of High Gear Success. If you want to connect or recommend a guest, head to MomentumMotorsportsPodcast.com. Until next time, keep the momentum rolling.