Welcome to Momentum, a motorsports podcast powered by High Gear Success. I'm your host, Heather Wilson Schiltz. Here we share the stories and strategies that keep the world of motorsports moving forward. And joining me today is Jeff Henson, editor at Dirt Wheels Magazine. So thanks for joining us. to see you and I'm glad to be here to talk everything Power Sports. So I hear that you're headed out to test some new ATVs tomorrow. Is it top secret or can you share where that's happening and kind of what the focus is? No, we're actually going up to Flagstaff. I'm based out of Phoenix, Arizona. It's very hot here right now, so we're heading up that way to cool some things, get into little cooler temperatures. But the machines we are testing are machines that are already out there. We have a Can-Am Outlander 700 XU Hunt Edition, which we will be testing out for our upcoming Hunt and Fishing Guide that comes out in September. And then we also have a Polaris Sportsman X2, which has a dumping bed on the back, a great machine for hunting, but also, you know, more utility focused. So no big secrets there. So when you're doing the testing, you doing all the photography? Are you shooting video or anything like that? Or just really kind of testing the product to write about it later? No, we are actually shooting, you know beauty shots action shots component shots of both of these machines We do try to do to video on everything we we can for our website And our YouTube channel And yeah, so I'm testing the machines. I'm writing about my own experience on these machines while trying to shoot photos and everything else. I usually have a test rider with me also that I can shoot for photos. And sometimes I actually give them the camera, set it up for them. And in this case, I'm going out with one of our contributing editors, Rob Baumsteiger, who is kind of new to photography, but he actually... shot the main photo on our July issue, which is just hit newsstands. It's his first cover. He's pretty excited about it. Just blabbing about it all over social media. And I know that excitement. I remember that. That's why I have love having guys like Rob. Rob kind of sees everything through the eyes of he's kind of childlike still. He's nerdy. I think we're all kind of nerdy. That's why we do this stuff. And, you know, in a mechanical sense. But it's really cool to work with, and they're hard to find today too, these guys that are still enthusiastic and excited. That want to learn more about ATVs, UTVs, whatever it is. So you started out on dirt bikes though in the 1980s. You weren't an ATV guy to start. So how did that transition kind of happen? I was actually out riding my dirt bike at the time, which was, had an 84 CR 250. This was back in the eighties and ran into a buddy of mine who had just picked up. actually he had, he had had it for a while. had a 1987 Yamaha Banshee. Uh, one of the iconic ATVs of, you know, when the height of sport quads, twin cylinder two stroke, from Yamaha. Uh, I got a ride on it and. As soon as the power kicked in, that mid-range power hit, I don't know if you've ever ridden a Yamaha Banshee, but when that hit, I was addicted. And I went out just a couple of weeks later and picked up a 1989 Banshee at the dealership. And that kind of started my entry into quads, which led to racing, which led to a career in ATV media. Long story short. Yeah, I, um, I have not written a four wheeler for a very long time. And actually most people don't know this because I don't usually say this is part of my story, but I rode a four wheeler before I rode a dirt bike. So I was probably four or five and we had these little Eton four wheelers and they had a little, um, like cord, uh, safety cord, I guess that plugged in in the back of it. And my parents would have to run behind us. to stay the pace that we were. And then if we got going too fast, they could pull the cord and it would kill the motor or whatever. So they got a lot of workout chasing us around. It's funny because there are some youth models, usually in that 50cc category, like Kawasaki's KFX50 still uses that tether cord that attaches to the rear grab bar. You would think they would have like remotes now that you could like remote shut it off instead of running behind with a tether. Yeah, especially Kawasaki. know, some of the, and to be honest, a lot of those smaller youth models, even with the major manufacturers are actually made by Chinese and Taiwan companies. A lot of those new companies coming up, like Denago and others that make smaller ATVs, they do have that cell phone technology where you can control the speed or shut the thing off altogether. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think probably the last time I was actually on an ATV would have been in high school. So my dad sold Arctic Cat four wheelers for a long time in his dealership. And then we would take it down to the club grounds that he's a member of, and we would kind of just casually ride it on the trails. But most of my life has been dirt bike stuff. So it has been a long time since I've been on an ATV. It is kind of funny the back and forth between two wheel people and ATV people, know, there's a lot, a lot of two wheeler guys say, drive, you you ride a quad because you can't balance a machine, which ATV just, requires a lot of balance. just in a whole different form. I still ride dirt bikes. I love it all. still ride. I have a UTV. I had a UTV. I sold it because I prefer handlebars mostly. And I always have plenty of side by sides around here that I'm testing. So why have my own when I can go out and ride the latest, greatest, newest stuff. But I do have a couple of ATVs. Yeah, I definitely feel like there's maybe some playful banter slash trash talking between the disciplines of two and four wheels when it comes to riders, but mostly in good fun. I don't think anybody's too serious about that. If they are, we ignore them. So you also are a racer for a number of years. So how did you get interested in kind of being a recreational rider and then transitioning into racing? I was actually asked, the same guy that I ran into that had that Banshee years later, we were friends and he decided he was going to go down and run the Baja 1000. This was in 1995 and a year when the race actually started in Tijuana and went all the way down to the bottom of the peninsula, La Paz, near Cabo. And, um, they asked me to come along and help pit. And I was like, okay, well, I've never really been to Mexico short of just crossing over the border for the day I hadn't even been, I had never been much further than the border. And I was like, okay, cool. You know, at least I'll have somebody there telling me, you know, where to go, what to do, how to, how to do stuff. And a week before the race, one of their riders, their team riders, I think we had three total three or four. Got really sick and had to back out and they just came to me and say hey Jeff you're riding now. I was like what? I've never even been on a motocross. Well, I had been on a motocross track just for fun on a Banshee which really isn't a motocross quad. Baja was a whole different deal. That was my first ATV race ever. It was my first race ever. Yeah. it was, and the funny thing is the cars and trucks started a couple hours behind us. Well, they caught me on my segment. And I remember it was Ivan Stewart and Walker Evans. So the Toyota and the V10 Dodge actually caught me as they were duking it out with each other for position. They split me right down the center and went around and I didn't even hear them coming, but that V10 Dodge was extremely loud when it did pass me and I was in this, an area called Borrego and it was a giant wash and there was an island of sand and I just pulled up on the top of that. You know, it was the safest thing I think I could find and just tried to catch my breath after what had just happened. Maybe even clean my shorts out. I don't know. Because they probably didn't have like now I think they have like push to pass buttons like almost like alerts that alert you that people are coming up like that wasn't a thing then so This, no, we didn't have transponders. We, think one of our, our chase rigs had a satellite phone, which was fairly new technology, I think at the time, or to the point where you could afford to have it with you. We had no communication, pretty much. It was at that time to even, and we didn't have any GPS guidance. was following, hoping you were on the course. I remember I was riding at night during that part and, just looking for a course marker in pitch black. and they had these little sparkly things. And I finally saw one. I thought it was off the course for the longest time, but finally saw one. We did not finish. I think we made it 700 miles of about 1300 miles on that course, broke down in San Ignacio. But. And the whole time I was out there, I was like, what am I doing out here? What am I doing out here? This is crazy. I'm going to get killed. Yeah. I would look behind me because I could hear the trucks coming again. I'd look behind me. Nothing there. My head was so messed up after that first engagement with the trucks. But I, we got done. And even though we didn't finish, I was hooked after that came home, signed up for the local series. And it just became. A lifestyle after that, that wiped out my credit cards and everything. You know, I threw everything I had at it. I was going to college at the time, I think even then was looking to start a new career and that kind of took a backseat. but yeah, and here I am today, you know, got involved in ATV media and not too long after that. what helped you to get your start in the media industry? I was writing about my stories on the internet, was predominantly America Online at the time. I work for Hi-Torque Publications now, which we have several different magazines. Dirt Wheels is one of those. Dirt Bike, Motocross Action, and Mountain Bike Action are the other main titles we have right now in print along with UTV Action on the web. But I was writing about these stories on there and a guy named Bill Lanfear, who our readers will probably know as WBGO, he was writing and doing photography for, he was the editor actually, at Four Wheel Action, which eventually became UTV Action. And he discovered me and we had some back and forth through messaging systems, which was really slow. This was in the infancy of the internet. And we ended up hooking up out at Glamis for a ride one day and became good friends. And anyway, he had some other magazines approach him for jobs and he declined, but suggested they give me a call after reading what I had. written the, I was going to college for visual communications, which meant photography and stuff too. And Bob Davis who owned ATV Illustrated magazine at the time gave me a call and I worked a lot for free just to get, keep my foot in the door. It eventually expanded and us turning ATV Illustrated into a print magazine, which grew from there and was going strong. until around 08, 09 when the economy collapsed, most of the big ATV magazines collapsed after that. I was actually working at that time for a magazine called ATV Sport and ATV Magazine. But yeah, that crunch really hurt us. Everything collapsed except for Hi- Torque. I kind of got out of media for a while and came back into when things sparked up again during COVID, which was very good for power sports. Yeah, definitely. With that media landscape kind of being ever-changing and you've worked for a variety of different outlets, what kind of opportunities did moving from different publications bring for you? Did you try to do something new when you got to a new publication or did you kind of try to fit the style that they had in place? little bit of each, you know, you, you definitely want to keep this style, especially at Hi- Torque. Dirt wheels has been around since 1980 nonstop. it's the one publication that has survived. It's the OG of ATV media. High torque has actually been around since the seventies with the dirt bike and motocross action that followed after that. but you definitely want to take, you know, What they've already done, what people identify with these publications, but then you try to expand and bring in new technologies. Hi-Torque sometimes seems like it's stuck in the past a little bit with the print media, but we're using new technologies, including podcasting. Right now we're getting ready to launch our first podcast in the joint venture with ATV On Demand, talking specifically about sport quads. But we're also in tune with, you know, trying to update our video skills, our YouTube channel. It's tough right now because we're doing this with a limited workforce. You know, there's a lot of uncertainty in what's coming down with the economy right now. So we have to be very creative in the way we do things with the least amount of cost. Even at my age and a lot of the guys that I, the three main editors were all over 50, you know, but we're, I think all three of us are still learning. And that's part of the fun part of being in the media and stuff, learning these new technologies and learning, you know, how to grow our audience, that stuff, you know, if you're not exploring those things, then it gets kind of stale. Yeah, it's not just writing anymore or just being a photographer. Now you're doing video, you're doing podcasts, you're doing social media. Like there's a lot kind of packed in You know, and traveling all the time on top of that. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a lot. I hear it my wife all the time. My wife's always telling me you need to stop. It's my time. What do you think readers or followers today are looking for from a Power Sports magazine? What are some of the, you know, fan favorites that you see? For Dirt Wheels, our old readership want to see more ATV content, which we do. It's a difficult, it's tough because right now, or at least over the last several years, the main focus has been side by sides and UTVs. That's where the bulk of our advertisers are right now. But here at the publication, the three main editors, everybody that we use, we all started out on ATVs or dirt bikes. We all love handlebars. So you have to, there's a balance there. You want to keep those readers happy, but you don't want to upset your advertisers who pay for the printing costs, which are huge right now. They've doubled in the last decade. So, yeah, it's some more ATV content. And the good news is we kind of see things swinging back towards ATVs as far as popularity in the industry goes. People are looking for something that's more affordable. Not everybody can afford a 20, 30, 40, and even $50,000 side by side. And the maintenance that comes with that, you know, it seems like a lot of the bigger manufacturers have kind of ignored. the those lower income and middle class customers. Not all of them. Thank you Yamaha for continuing to make the Raptor and the YFZ 450R and other great sport uh 4x4 quads like the Grizzly and others at Can-Am has really taken off on their 4x4 ATV lineup. so it's that we even, you know, we even include we've had a couple of issues this year that had three wheelers on the cover, you know, and When was the last time those were made? 1986, 87. But they're still very popular. So, you know, it's just trying to keep everybody happy. yeah, you get, of course, social media brings out everybody. They're going to say whatever they want because nobody's there to slap them in the face. Yeah, and I think it's interesting too, because you mentioned, you might have older readers, but then you've got a younger demographic and you're kind of trying to serve up something for everyone, but they kind of want different things. Like I think that's probably one of the most challenging pieces about media today is I feel like there are more options that fit different demographics and you've got to do a little bit of each because If you just focus on one, especially like the older segment, you want to provide something to them, but you also have to be growing like the next generation of readers or followers. You don't want to abandon a certain generation. Exactly. And, we do see that some of that happening with the major manufacturers. So it's like, we try to keep them in check at the same time, let them know, Hey, there is a whole other group out here that you guys have kind of lost control with who these are your future side by side buyers, give them something, you know, to, to identify with, you know, as far as your brand goes. Yeah. On the, on the racing segment. mean, Yamaha really is it. And has like a choke hold on that because nobody else is really producing, you know, a sport, sport quad. And I hear it all the time from people that are running really, really old Honda machines, like really old. They don't want to leave Honda, but like Honda hasn't produced anything current for them to use, which is kind of puzzling. I know that you're good friends with Adam McGill. He's one of the most outspoken on that. Yeah, for sure. you know, my parents having a KTM dealership back when KTM made ATVs for that short amount of time, like everybody loved them. ATVs. Everybody loved them, but it was just like the wrong time, like the wrong time in history for that to come out. Yeah, 2008, I think is when they came out on that and they were much more expensive than the Honda Yamaha Suzuki's at that time. And it's unfortunate because they made a fantastic machine. And I think that the timing was the majority of why that did not take off. So you mentioned to me that you're wrapping up a hunting and fishing guide and you are quite the outdoorsman yourself. So where are some of your favorite places to go and do you get to tie in product testing with your hobbies or sometimes you just like to go enjoy your hobby? Sometimes I have to force myself to leave my camera at home if I want, especially if I go out. It's kind of what I do with the dirt bike. You know, it's like, I'm not going to use this to shoot anything. but at some point I ended up pulling my phone out to take a picture of something that's out on the trail. But yeah, the everywhere I go with the ATV, I usually have the camera with me. have a we have a group of old guys that still are riding sport quads on motocross track. have a track that's about two hours west of Phoenix that we like to go to frequently. Even in the summer, when it's 110 out there, we'll get out there super early and ride. And there's a pool at the track and the indoor country club that's air conditioned so we can just cool off before we head home. But we do a lot of travel. I just got back from Louisiana riding, I don't know if you know who Dustin Jones is, he's an ambassador. yeah. oh Awesome personality. m Yeah, well, since we're bringing that up, he I can't think of a better brand ambassador that I've seen to date than Dustin Jones. And the way you see him in all the videos you see online, that's exactly how he is 24 /7 Him and Adam McGill actually kind of remind me of each other. Both like very eccentric, fun, lively, like party personalities, but also like great brand ambassadors, like you said. Absolutely. I know you and I have gone back and forth with articles, you know, for amateur racers on how to promote yourself, how to take care of your sponsors. Adam is my number one on my list as far, I mean, you see him every week talking about his sponsors about Obor tires or whatever it is, you know, that he's running on his machine at the time, along with the Crown Royal, obviously. I feel like that one came along later in life for him, like the crown. I don't think he is sponsored by them, but he should be. So it should be the collection that he's got. there's a great, I don't know if you've seen this, him and Walker Fowler are going right back and forth I'm sure if it was mutual, like if it is a fun poke at each other, if there was a little more malice behind it, I'm not quite sure, but yeah, they're... I think it's all in fun from what I've seen. The last video I saw of Adam, he was in the store grabbing a Costco size pack of Kleenex for Walker's tears. And then Fowler put something up today. I can't remember what it was. was... an AI image or something. anyway, had to, it was back and forth. And I'm pretty, I'm sure it's all in fun. Both I've, you know, talked to those guys, got to meet Walker this last year when we were at the factory for Yamaha and Georgia seeing YFZs and Raptors being actually built there and got to meet him. They're just super really cool down to earth guys. And well, of course, Adam is Adam. he's a great personality on camera and yeah, actually a very good brand ambassador for companies that support him. Yup. Yeah. I haven't met Dustin that you were referencing, but I've kind of interacted with him on social media and stuff. And yeah, he, he seems like a great person to promote products and just have a good time with. Absolutely, yeah. So after the kind of hunting and fishing guide that's coming out, the next issue is going to be sand focused. Is that correct? Yeah, yeah, that'll be our October issue. we have some vintage machines that will be in that vintage ATVs two stroke. Oh, actually I take that back. They're not vintage. We have a Raptor. We'll have something vintage in that, but we do have a, I've got a Raptor 700 build from Duncan Racing planned for that. But a lot of, it'll be all about products for sand duning. Um, it's one of our most popular issues, a lot of high performance stuff and they're both ATV and side by side. I'm really looking forward to digging into that. That's a fun issue. That is something I have never experienced, is riding in sand dunes on any machine. Yeah, not even on your dirt bike. Not even on a dirt bike. I think that would be really challenging on a dirt bike more than four wheels. mean, living in the Midwest, sand is not something I usually encounter. Yeah. I've, I've done it on a dirt bike and it's just a whole, a totally different thing on a dirt bike. have so much room, especially out at Glamis to just drift through, you know, corners and natural banks and everything. It's, yeah, it's, it's very different, but for ATVs and now side-by-sides, it's, it's heaven really. Yeah. go and go and go as long as you know what you're doing. It seems like I can't turn YouTube on a single day without seeing somebody wad up a side by side at Glamis because they don't know how to read the dunes. It does take some experience and technique. You mentioned that you're launching a podcast called Quadcast. So what is kind of the content that you're hoping to release through that podcast? It will be an extension really of what we're already doing at Dirt Wheels and what Joe is doing at ATV On Demand. It's going to have more insider stuff, especially OEM insiders. We just finished up our first episode where we talked to Brock Harden at Kayo and Kayo is introducing a 300 cc EFI True Sport Quad to the US market. It's already available in Europe. Joe and I have been hounding them to bring this thing to the US for a while now because there's very little in the full size Sport A TV segment other than the Raptor and the YFZ 450R from Yamaha. So they are bringing that. I got to test ride it at the last WORCS round at Glen Helen. Very cool machine, glad to see it. It's kind of a good competitor for the space that the Honda 300 EX left a long time ago. The power is very close to what the 400 EX actually put out. For you, that 400 EX, it's similar to the XR400 engine and the old XR400 dirt bike, which is probably still known as the goat, the Billy goat for single trackers. So we're excited to see that and we will be talking to him, you know about the machine about my impressions of how it performed and all the the Stuff that Kayo has got to go up work with it, know with working with the California Air Resources Board and EPA that they're working to get this thing 50 state legal right now So you'll get an insider view of what the OEMs have to deal with to bring these new vehicles to dealerships. Yeah, I love that because I feel like, I mean, even myself, I'm always still learning what goes on behind the scenes and that'll be really cool for listeners to get that glimpse. Yeah. And we're going to focus more on the ATV side with this particular podcast. We're already talking about doing one for UTVs too, with dirt wheels. Cain Smead and I, he's the longest, or he's been at dirt wheels longer than I have, but he's one of my partners along with Tim Tolleson, Tim Lumpy Tolleson who has been with Hi- Torque, you know, forever. I mean, going back into the early eighties, think he started out at dirt bike. but yeah, when the podcast is going to be ATV focus, we're going to be talking to those industry insiders. We'll go towards racing a little bit, but it'll be more with talking to racers and promoting the amateur side of racing, you know, the grassroots side to actually, that the whole goal is to get more people out to the tracks to try it out. You know, a lot of people see our content, which covers the, the pros, you know, and the pro am racers. you don't have to be. a Walker Fowler or Brycen Neal or a Joel Hetrick or a Beau Baron to come out and race. There's a class for everybody. I run WORCS currently in the 50 plus class. There's a A, B and C, you know, for, for, different skill levels. there are beginner classes. There's classes for brand new racers. You know, it's all, I tell people it's kind of safer than actually going out and riding trails or riding the dunes. Cause everybody is forced to wear proper gear and we're all going the same directions. Usually, if you're not, that does happen occasionally too. But yeah, it's a great way to... And the neat thing about ATV guys is they're always willing to help out the new people, give them a place to stay, get their machine dialed in, help them out with tire choice, whatever it is. Yeah, I think entering racing can be pretty intimidating, especially if you don't come from a family or friends that have done it. If you're just somebody who thinks they want to try it out and like getting into it, it can be pretty nerve wracking. But once you actually show up there and, introduce yourself to some people, then they're going to introducing you to people. And then people are pretty willing to help. Yeah. And I kind of got back into it, not so much for the competition. enjoy that, but 2022, I had both of my hips replaced. I've, I've, I've got a separated shoulder and everything. thought I was done, but I missed the camaraderie, the camping out, the hanging out with friends, uh, the smack talk before and after the races. You know, that's probably, that was half the fun back when I was very serious about it today. It's probably more of reason I do it. Yeah. but it's just, it's just fun to be out there and you meet new, you meet the coolest people that race at races, especially on the ATV side. so yeah, I would encourage people to try it out, you know, come out to WORCS, come find me, you know, and we'll, we'll show you around, introduce you to some people. yeah, it's a lot of fun. Can you tell our listeners where they can connect with you online or dirt wheels, whether it's on social media or a website? Yeah, our website is dirtwheelsmag.com. We run a lot of the breaking news stories and our old stories from the magazine there. You can also subscribe to the print magazine from our website. That magazine is available in grocery stores that still have magazine newsstands. You can find it at most big bookstores like Barnes & Noble, Kroger. grocery stores anywhere that you find a magazine stand, you'll most likely find dirt wheels along with our other print publications. Well, I appreciate you being here and thanks to everybody for tuning in to Momentum. This has been a production of High Gear Success and if you want connect with us to recommend a guest, head to MomentumMotorsportsPodcast.com. Until next time, keep the momentum rolling.